Re: Planet X Debate Enterprise2002 vs J.William Dell
Debate with: Enterprise2002 Brian Gillbank
From: J.William Dell
Subject: Analysis of PX Debate Opening Statement,
To: Men and Women of Science, and all stakeholders of this Planet,
Greetings;
This debate is occurring at the appropriate time in the proper forum.
The claims made by Nancy Lieder, where discountable before Sept 21,
2002 have now become of pressing interest and issue, needing rational
discussion and some type of determination by this body and the world
in general.
We are here to debate the issues raised by the CCD imaging taken, of
astronomic coordinates, ( http://www.zetatalk.com/usenet/use90661.htm )
given by a claimed telepath, Nancy Lieder, on behalf of another
species, called Zeta who communicate by empathic or telepathic method.
The telescope images of the coordinates were taken in Arizona, at the
direction of Steve Havas. These images have been analyzed by a group
of individuals from around the world and findings presented on the
issue.
These findings are available at
http://www.zetatalk.com/teams/tteam342.htm
Further, the raw data has been made available freely in order for
anyone to make their own determination.
Sept 21 2002
http://www.zetatalk.com/teams/rogue/shavas1.htm
Oct 4 2002
http://www.zetatalk.com/teams/rogue/shavas4.htm
Oct 11 2002
http://www.zetatalk.com/teams/rogue/shavas7.htm
Programs required for analysis of images:
Cadet http://www.terra.es/personal2/oscarcj/introeng.htm
Before entering into the specifics of the images under debate,
it is necessary to bring the debate issues into the context in which
they originate.
According to the Zeta, for the last 50 years, the American government
has been aware of 2 things;
1) That extraterrestrial species do exist and would introduce
themselves, if government did not introduce them sooner, after the
time of a poleshift, predicted to occur in 2003.
http://www.zetatalk.com/govmt/g00.htm
2) That a poleshift of Planet Earth would occur in 2003, due to the
return of the planet called Planet X or 10 by our scientists, Called
Niburu and Marduk by our ancestors.
http://www.zetatalk.com/poleshft/p00.htm
The introduction by the Zeta in the 1940-50's, was to inform the US
government of future events and allow the world to prepare.
In its wisdom, the US Government has followed a different path, and
hid this information from both its public, and its elected representatives.
And continues to do so.
Further confirmation of the observations and predictions made by the
Zeta about Planet X will undermine confidence in the US Government,
unless the US Government reveals its knowledge of these matters.
Regarding this debate, consider;
How does a species that only communicates by empathic method prove its
existence to the human species that will not except any possibility of
any things existence without physical proofs (scientific method)?
And how will they speak to the human species when recognized?
The Zeta have provided specific coordinates and details regarding planet x.
They have provided further predictions that can be seen at
http://www.zetatalk.com/poleshft/p00.htm regarding its location,
passage, and effects.
They indicate that this planet returning is a normal activity within
our solar system. It has occurred numerous times and follows an
approx. 3600 year orbit of our Sun.
They wish to use Planet X returning at this time, by providing their
observations and predictions in advance, which are clearly unknown to
us, as proof of their own existence.
The Zeta are preparing for;
1) Contact between species
a) First contact will be empathic between we and they
and will not occur until acceptance of their existence is recognized
on an individual basis.
b) The contact, when made will be limited to those individuals who
without fear and anxiety, are able to interact on a peaceful basis.
They want us to be curious, not afraid. To make a journey of
discovery.
c) Empathic communication includes conceptual thought, emotion,
feelings, and identification of others point of view, ie: relating to
anothers point of view conceptually and emotionally.
d) Empathic communication requires relating of common elements of
culture. Through the work of the telepath Nancy Lieder over a seven
year period accumulating data from answers given by the Zeta to
questions asked from people all over the world. The Zeta have
developed a library of information that is now available for the
population of Earth to read and explore. Through this understanding
gained from the information available at www.zetatalk.com the Zeta
believe that Earth's citizens will be better prepared to culturally
identify with the Zeta culture and begin peaceful interaction.
2) Poleshift
a) The poleshift will occur May/June 2003 and will have effects upon
society and the planet earth as stated in the predictions of the Zeta.
b) By early recognition of this upcoming event and cooperative effort
by individuals and communities before and after the poleshift event,
more can be done to ensure physical survival of the human species.
3) Identification of Planet X
a) The images of Sept. 21 2002 and Oct 4 2002 taken by telescope and
available at http://www.zetatalk.com/teams/tteam342.htm are an
attempt to both prove the existence of planet X, and through that
proof, the existence of the source of the coordinates, the Zeta.
b) The Findings of Oct 9 2002 titled Analysis of Planet X explain the
results of review of those images. Attached as Appendix
c) Further images of Oct 11 2002 confirm both the continued appearance
and the characteristic of the approaching planet.
Finally;
There is no doubt that further events and images will determine the
validity of this issue, and will confirm what I as the proponent am
stating.
Where years ago, when I first began looking at this issue I justified
my belief as; "I'd rather be wrong, and called a kook.
Than right, and have failed to act."
In my mind, with the evidence we have today to support the proposition
that is laid out above, there is confirmation.
For each and every one of you, you also will reach the point of
confirmation or denial of claim.
Preparing for the possibility is prudent, working together to achieve
Co-operative coexistence before, during and after the poleshift is
critical. It will not occur by government decree and top down
management. It will succeed because of cooperative efforts of family,
friends, and community dealing on a local level meeting local needs.
In this time, the human spirit will rise to its full potential.
In this debate,
We are here to prove that Planet X, Niburu of our ancestors, has returned.
How can we make such bold announcements and assertions to an assembled scientific community?
How does Nancy Lieder give us Coordinates and Times of Observance here
on Earth, concerning something that is 20 Billion miles away?
And how is it that this debate is about whether it is noise on the
film on Sept 21,2002 and now noise again at a moved coordinate on Oct
4, 2002.and noise again that moved on Oct 11 2002?
I give you another statement of fact from the Zeta from August 3rd 2002;
http://www.zetatalk.com/index/caug0302.htm
(NancyL) ZT to Sam: When PX becomes visible this fall, to amateurs, it
will be called alternatively noise, a fleeting comet, a fleeting nova,
or a delusion.
(NancyL) ZT: Only images can register SOMETHING, and few amateurs have
the equipment to register an infrared object.
(NancyL) ZT: Also, the bending of red light, which allow the amateur
to FIND the object when he/she looks around the spot, will continue to
support ridicule so that it is stated that DIFFERENT objects are being
sighted.
(NancyL) End ZT to Sam.
That statement made 1 and one half months ago couldn't have been any
closer to what has been discovered since Sept 21 2002.
It's Here.
Submitted,
J.William Dell
Appendix
Findings:
Oct 9 2002
Analysis of Planet X Images
I have found the answers given on Oct. 5,2002 by the Zeta to be very
helpful in confirming what appears on the images.
Working to the request of the Zeta, based on the following quote, I give
my opinion on the best image of PX.
Quote from Zetatalk Q & A Oct. 5,2002
"(NancyL) ZT: Suffice it to say that you should look for the STRONGEST red
object in accordance with what is expected in coordinates motion, and in
relation to the white light object, and in accordance with latitude and time
of exposure, etc."
The Summary images of Oct 4,2002 show 4 new candidates on it.
Two are recognized by Avis Fits Viewer.
1) Here is my reasoning, to support the candidate slightly above the
Sept 21,2002 announced PX.
Reasons to support main candidate located on Summary image of Oct
4,2002 ( located slightly above the Steves Candidate of Sept 21,2002
Summary image )
a) This object shows up on the Summary image of Oct. 4 2002.
Avis Fits File Viewer recognizes this object on the Summary image.
When referencing Frame 4 (where the object appears), it is noted that
2 objects are recognized by Avis Fits Viewer. The PX object and (slightly
below and to the left) a very faint star, which I believe is on the DSS
comparison images.
Note: Steve Havas has suggested that the DSS star is further left and this
Avis recognized object maybe a strong ghost image or something else.
b) According to movement chart, with coordinate change, PX should move
left on image and very slightly down. This object has moved up and
left when compared with Sept 21,2002 red object location. The other
Avis Fits viewer recognized candidate has moved down and right
significantly.
c) Given the new information on refraction angle (by Zeta on Chat Oct
5,2002) The closing distance of PX over the past 12 days would mean
the angle of refraction is decreasing. Logically, over time, we should
see the red image move closer to the true coordinates. (the white light image)
Therefore, the Oct. 4, 2002 pictures should show the object above it's
Sept 21 image.
Quote on refraction from Q & A Zetatalk Chat Oct 5,2002
(NancyL) ZT: Until Planet X reaches the edge of the solar system, the orbit
of Pluto or thereabouts, it will continue to present TWO objects, both
increasingly large and bright as the months pass.
(NancyL) ZT: It is when the distance is such that LITTLE bending
occurs that they will blend, become one object, a gradual progression
of becoming closer and closer in images and scopes.
d) We have moved past the solstice, 9/21, and on 10/4 the light from
Px came almost directly FROM the East, NOT over the Equator.
On 9/21 it was much closer TO the Equator, so had to BEND down more.
Therefore, PX in the Oct 4 2002 images should be above the Sept 21
2002 location
3) Confirmation of Planet X
Findings to date;
Steve Havas has captured PX on film according to directions by Zeta, on
both occasions at the general coordinates.
a) The Summary image of Sept 21 2002 shows an object known as Steves
Candidate and this has been confirmed by Zeta.
http://www.zetatalk.com/teams/rogue/pierre2.htm
b) The Summary image of Oct 4 2002 shows an object slightly above
Steves Candidate.
http://www.zetatalk.com/teams/rogue/pierre6.htm
Therefore, the PX object is now confirmed, by appearing on both the
Summary image of Sept 21 2002 and the Summary image of Oct 4 2002.
Note: Oct 11 2002 Summary also shows object
http://www.zetatalk.com/teams/rogue/pierre7.htm
Conclusions;
1) Based on summary image picking up object, refraction angle change
due to distance covered over last 12 days, predicted movement by Zeta,
earth position at time of imaging, and on looking for most intense red
object on film.
I conclude that the new Image of Planet X of Oct. 4,2002 is located just
above the Sept. 21,2002 PX location as seen on the Summary images of
the two dates.
2) The PX object is now confirmed by the fact of it having been imaged
on two different occasions in the coordinate area specified by the
Zeta.
3) Based on the statements by the Zeta on refraction, we can now
confidently predict that the next images (assume same location and
angle of viewing) will show the red light image closer to the true
coordinates (white light) of PX .
Note: Images taken Oct 11 2002 confirm red & white objects converging.
Submitted
J.William Dell
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